This is the complete transcript of an interview with Dr. Peter Marks, the former leader of the FDA’s Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research, which was partially aired on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on April 13, 2025.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We welcome Dr. Peter Marks, who recently stepped down as the FDA’s leading vaccine regulator. Thank you for joining us on Face the Nation.
DR. PETER MARKS: I appreciate being here today.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There are several topics I’d like to discuss with you, but let’s start with an urgent matter—the measles outbreak. The CDC has advised travelers within the U.S., particularly to Kansas and Texas, to get extra measles shots due to record outbreaks. This recommendation wasn’t posted online but was provided to local health officials. What are your thoughts on this public health guidance?
DR. MARKS: That guidance reflects the significant spread of measles and uncertainty regarding individuals’ vaccination statuses. They aim to ensure everyone is as protected as possible. Some individuals vaccinated, particularly in the early 60s, might not be adequately immunized since the vaccine’s effectiveness during that time was less reliable. Therefore, it’s advisable for those individuals to consider revaccination, especially since some are uncertain about their vaccination records. It’s better to err on the side of caution with such a preventable disease, particularly given that the measles vaccine is one of the safest we have.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The MMR vaccine.
DR. MARKS: Yes, the MMR vaccine.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You mentioned an intriguing point—the composition of the vaccine was different in years past, affecting its quality?
DR. MARKS: Yes, that’s correct. The quality and potency of the vaccine given from about 1957 to 1967 may not have been as strong as today’s formulation. Individuals vaccinated during that time might want to discuss revaccination with their healthcare provider.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I’m highlighting this because HHS Secretary mentioned that the measles vaccine’s effectiveness decreases by 4.5% each year, implying that older adults are essentially unvaccinated and vulnerable. This seems somewhat different from your view. Is his characterization accurate, considering it suggests older Americans should reconsider their vaccination?
DR. MARKS: Primarily, if you were born before 1957, you likely don’t need to worry, as most of us experienced measles and have natural immunity. Someone born in that era isn’t a concern for unvaccinated status because natural measles infection leads to robust lifetime immunity. However, for individuals vaccinated between 1957 and 1967, it’s wise to consult with their doctor about revaccination. For those vaccinated after that with two doses of the newer measles vaccine, lifetime immunity is generally accepted, and we don’t typically see measles cases in those individuals later in life. Yes, some with compromised immune systems might need revaccination, but overall, if you’ve had two doses, you’re typically safe.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, the two doses provide lasting immunity, which is your point?
DR. MARKS: Correct. While it’s true that many vaccinations do see a reduction in protection over time, the threshold for immunity remains. If you’ve had two doses of the current MMR vaccine, you usually maintain immunity against measles for life.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Secretary Kennedy spoke with my colleague, Dr. Jon LaPook, after two unvaccinated children died in Texas due to measles. He reiterated that people should receive the MMR vaccine. Let’s listen to that.
(TAKE VIDEO)
DR. JON LAPOOK: What is the federal government’s philosophical stance on public health?
HHS SECRETARY ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR.: The federal government’s position, and my position, is that people should get the measles vaccine, but the government should not mandate it.
DR. JON LAPOOK: Understandable, but the–
HHS SECRETARY ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR.: I have always maintained during my campaign and in every public statement I’ve made: I’m not going to take people’s right to vaccines away. What I will do is ensure we have solid science for informed choices.
(END VIDEO)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is that an adequate endorsement?
DR. MARKS: I’m not here to comment on that, but as a public health professional, let me clarify: If you’re listening and your child is unvaccinated against measles, measles is currently spreading in our country. You wouldn’t let your child ride in a car without strapping them in. You should prioritize getting your child vaccinated against measles to avoid a one in a thousand risk of death if they contract it. The vaccine is safe—it does not lead to death, encephalitis, or autism. While the vaccine might cause mild fever, with temperature management, serious side effects are extremely rare. Vaccination protects your child and can save their life. We should care for our children enough to ensure they receive two doses of the measles vaccine. After two doses, it’s incredibly unlikely for a child to suffer a measles-related death. While a small percentage may contract measles, it is generally not life-threatening, making vaccination essential. If you have questions, consult your pediatrician or healthcare provider. If you have religious hesitations, discuss them with your clergy, as many major religions recognize the importance of vaccination and support it. That’s the essence of an endorsement.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It must be frustrating for you. Given your extensive experience in the vaccine field, you obviously believe in its safety and effectiveness, and the lack of clear communication poses a risk.
DR. MARKS: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, are you saying that—
DR. MARKS: Exactly. There are many people unable to speak out like I can. They understand that the benefits of this vaccine far outweigh the risks. Not using it is like neglecting child safety in a car. You would likely report a 15-month-old roaming in a car without a seatbelt. However, I’m not suggesting imposing mandates, but we do have a moral obligation to safeguard our children against potentially life-threatening diseases, especially with the outbreak occurring throughout the nation. Recently, more states have been designated as outbreak states, signifying they have established three or more measles cases. Currently, seven states have reported outbreaks, with Texas being the epicenter, followed closely by outbreaks in Indiana and Ohio. These locations are concerning, particularly Ohio and Pennsylvania, where vaccination rates among the Amish community can be as low as 20%.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You’ve noted that there are individuals like you who are unable to speak candidly. You possess that freedom now because you’re no longer at the FDA.
DR. MARKS: Correct.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So your former colleagues are unable to voice their opinions fully, including endorsing vaccines at this moment?
DR. MARKS: It seems challenging for some in this climate, but you’d need to ask them directly.
MARGARET BRENNAN: In your resignation letter, you highlighted the measles outbreak and the implications of diminished public trust in science. You stated that truth and transparency seem unwelcome to the Secretary, and instead, he appears to seek compliant affirmation of misinformation. Did you ever raise these concerns with him?
DR. MARKS: For the record, I never had direct communication with the Secretary. I don’t intend to engage further on that. The priority must be to address the issue at hand: vaccine confidence, which has been consistently undermined in recent years, leading to these consequences. It’s not exclusively measles; we recently had two fatalities in Louisiana from pertussis due to under-vaccinated populations. Moreover, I reject the notion that we should pause efforts against infectious diseases to concentrate solely on chronic illnesses; we can address both. Our nation is capable of doing so.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That aligns with the Secretary’s current stated policy.
DR. MARKS: You’ll need to verify that. From my viewpoint, we possess adequate public health infrastructure to address both challenges.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You seem to imply that scientists operate based on verifiable facts, questioning the progression of science, constantly revising conclusions. You contend that the Secretary of HHS does not grasp this approach and instead prefers accepting flawed information as confirmation.
DR. MARKS: My earlier comments reflect my thoughts well enough. Science aims at uncovering objective truths for humanity’s benefit, and for those of us who are committed, it’s deeply troubling when anyone undermines science’s credibility for personal convenience. That’s unacceptable. Even one death from measles is intolerable, and the effects on families can be devastating. The grief suffered by these families is immeasurable.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Many vaccines are still under development at the FDA. Can you comment on the Novavax COVID vaccine approval delay? Is there any valid reason for the FDA to withhold approval?
DR. MARKS: I can’t discuss details regarding matters currently under consideration at the FDA. However, the absence of an update on approvals—when typically we would have one—is concerning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is your concern about a potential shift in the government’s vaccine approval strategy?
DR. MARKS: At a broader level, I believe my departure signals concerns. I worry that it may indicate a pivot in our vaccine approval strategy. While I respect the need to target chronic disease, I find it worrying to deprioritize something fundamental to public health. It reminds me of how we understand that we should not mix drinking water sources with sewage. Why revert to increasing risks for our children? A substantial percentage of individuals once died from smallpox; we don’t have that fear today because of vaccines. Dismissing their efficacy is misguided.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There have been significant personnel cuts across federal health agencies, exceeding 10,000, with over 3,000 at the FDA alone. What should the public be aware of concerning these budget cuts?
DR. MARKS: The remaining personnel are dedicated to preserving public health. They face immense pressures and responsibilities but remain steadfast heroes. They monitor infection levels and ensure vaccine approval processes continue, all while addressing outbreaks. These individuals strive to fulfill their duties as best as possible. My hope is that organizational issues resolve effectively.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Thank you for your insights, Dr. Peter Marks.
DR. MARKS: Thank you for having me.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll return shortly.
